I agree. The performative nature of proposals to weddings to marriages is really unhealthy. Unfortunately our legal system is set up to benefit couples officially married. But I think the most romantic way of embarking on this commitment is as you say, together, first and foremost. And not for the viewing pleasure of others. No fancy wedding day. No choices made for likes and shares. No pre-nup!! I feel strongly about this one. If you’re getting married - which is primarily a legally binding contract - why are you signing another contract saying just in case the first one doesn’t work out… how can it be both? If proposals and weddings were less about the optics and more about the commitment there’d be a lot less divorces.
I agree with you and write a lot about this in my book, but the more I think about prenups, the more I think women should insist on them to protect themselves.
Many women come to realize they didn’t actually know who they were married to until they try to leave. That’s not something you can plan or control for up front. I believe prenups are stigmatized specifically because they can help balance financial power in heterosexual marriages, and help women leave bad ones
I obviously back women being able to be safe, and ring fence what’s theirs, and be protected. I just feel like there’s no need to get married in the first place if you also feel the need to have a pre-nup. Just don’t do the legal contract from the off rather than doing two, in case one doesn’t work out
I guess I’m not understanding what it means for you to support women being protected, but not support a legal means of seeking that protection. A prenup isn’t a character judgment, it’s a sober acknowledgement that life can disrupt our best laid plans. Buying fire insurance doesn’t mean you’re expecting your house to burn down.
Is your objection that prenups seem unromantic? Because romance is why we pair off, but it’s not why we get the state involved. We get the state involved because there are tangible legal, financial, professional etc. benefits to marriage. But there are major risks too, especially for women, and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to mitigate them.
YUP! Couldn't agree more. All off the heteronormative scripts are icky. Dating rituals, marriage proposals (and their teen analogue, promposals), wedding white, and relinquishing last names—sexism dressed up as tradition— are all about leading girls to subsume their needs and identities to follow a life script that research shows benefits them far less than boys and men. I write all about this in my book, Sexism & Sensibility.
Somewhat agree. I got engaged last year, it was a mutual decision, it wasn’t a surprise and we there was no photoshoot. It was a lovely and intimate moment for just the two of us.
I would never get married without a formal proposal though because that’s what my parents did. There was no ring and my dad’s friend had to remind him to at least get flowers when he was on his way to ask my mom to marry him, otherwise he would have done it empty handed. That was the beginning of a horrible, neglectful and financially abusive marriage my parents had that ended up in an extremely nasty divorce and resulted in lots of trauma for me so I gotta make sure my future husband values me enough to put a little effort and thought in 🫡
Proposed to twice, married once. I'm glad the first one happened because I got to see a diamond up close and wear it around for a bit. Second time, I already had the ring, gave it to him, and told him to we could either get married or I was going to Costa Rica.
I agree. The performative nature of proposals to weddings to marriages is really unhealthy. Unfortunately our legal system is set up to benefit couples officially married. But I think the most romantic way of embarking on this commitment is as you say, together, first and foremost. And not for the viewing pleasure of others. No fancy wedding day. No choices made for likes and shares. No pre-nup!! I feel strongly about this one. If you’re getting married - which is primarily a legally binding contract - why are you signing another contract saying just in case the first one doesn’t work out… how can it be both? If proposals and weddings were less about the optics and more about the commitment there’d be a lot less divorces.
yes to everything except the prenup argument. it can save a woman financially, if she stayed at home bc of the children, and distribute power
I agree with you and write a lot about this in my book, but the more I think about prenups, the more I think women should insist on them to protect themselves.
I just feel like… don’t get married? No?
Many women come to realize they didn’t actually know who they were married to until they try to leave. That’s not something you can plan or control for up front. I believe prenups are stigmatized specifically because they can help balance financial power in heterosexual marriages, and help women leave bad ones
I obviously back women being able to be safe, and ring fence what’s theirs, and be protected. I just feel like there’s no need to get married in the first place if you also feel the need to have a pre-nup. Just don’t do the legal contract from the off rather than doing two, in case one doesn’t work out
I guess I’m not understanding what it means for you to support women being protected, but not support a legal means of seeking that protection. A prenup isn’t a character judgment, it’s a sober acknowledgement that life can disrupt our best laid plans. Buying fire insurance doesn’t mean you’re expecting your house to burn down.
Is your objection that prenups seem unromantic? Because romance is why we pair off, but it’s not why we get the state involved. We get the state involved because there are tangible legal, financial, professional etc. benefits to marriage. But there are major risks too, especially for women, and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to mitigate them.
I have been wanting to write this for the past year. Thank you
haha you'r welcome
YUP! Couldn't agree more. All off the heteronormative scripts are icky. Dating rituals, marriage proposals (and their teen analogue, promposals), wedding white, and relinquishing last names—sexism dressed up as tradition— are all about leading girls to subsume their needs and identities to follow a life script that research shows benefits them far less than boys and men. I write all about this in my book, Sexism & Sensibility.
thanks for your comment!
Somewhat agree. I got engaged last year, it was a mutual decision, it wasn’t a surprise and we there was no photoshoot. It was a lovely and intimate moment for just the two of us.
I would never get married without a formal proposal though because that’s what my parents did. There was no ring and my dad’s friend had to remind him to at least get flowers when he was on his way to ask my mom to marry him, otherwise he would have done it empty handed. That was the beginning of a horrible, neglectful and financially abusive marriage my parents had that ended up in an extremely nasty divorce and resulted in lots of trauma for me so I gotta make sure my future husband values me enough to put a little effort and thought in 🫡
My parents sat on the couch and said “so, should we get married?” Both answered “yes”, so they did! No ring, no production, no stress.
You’re wrong actually
Proposed to twice, married once. I'm glad the first one happened because I got to see a diamond up close and wear it around for a bit. Second time, I already had the ring, gave it to him, and told him to we could either get married or I was going to Costa Rica.
I never did get to go to Costa Rica :)